tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post3792948349297124484..comments2023-11-05T02:57:06.922-05:00Comments on The Vault of Horror: Metal and Horror: What's the Connection?B-Solhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10717121313061173603noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-90320491022861164162010-07-26T12:01:54.456-04:002010-07-26T12:01:54.456-04:00I don't believe it makes horror safer, though....I don't believe it makes horror safer, though. I think in a lot of cases, it makes it more cynical. It's part of the whole post-modern anti-hero thing.viagra onlinehttp://www.safemeds.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-10306323820653478272008-09-17T03:49:00.000-04:002008-09-17T03:49:00.000-04:00The biggest goth music festival in the UK takes pl...The biggest goth music festival in the UK takes place in Whitby. Connection with horror there? Erm... :-)pot head pixiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04043225264662244387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-16612294417723574742008-09-16T15:09:00.000-04:002008-09-16T15:09:00.000-04:00Goth and horror, eh...? I think I feel a future bl...Goth and horror, eh...? I think I feel a future blog spot coming on...B-Solhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10717121313061173603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-26845698805972227062008-09-16T12:42:00.000-04:002008-09-16T12:42:00.000-04:00I'd say there's as big or bigger a connection betw...I'd say there's as big or bigger a connection between goth and horror as between metal and horror.<BR/><BR/>Whatever, I think the article you wrote and the subsequent discussion was interesting.pot head pixiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04043225264662244387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-10002498039220086992008-09-16T09:01:00.000-04:002008-09-16T09:01:00.000-04:00There are a bunch of horror movies with metal song...There are a bunch of horror movies with metal songs featured in them, but the connection extends beyond that. You touched on it yourself--there's a lot of overlap in the fan base. So the two things appeal to a lot of the same people, and I've been trying to understand why.B-Solhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10717121313061173603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-68720921185973599412008-09-16T03:59:00.000-04:002008-09-16T03:59:00.000-04:00I've been mulling over this a bit more and the fol...I've been mulling over this a bit more and the following things have stuck in my mind.<BR/><BR/>Thematically, I think metal and horror are linked but I don't really know <EM>that many</EM> films that have heavy metal soundtracks. <BR/><BR/>Cradle of Fear springs to mind, but that stars the singer from Cradle of Filth and has a very goth aesthetic so maybe it's ok to have their music on the soundtrack...).<BR/><BR/>And the 80s Argento stuff (Phenomena above all) and maybe Demons as well...<BR/><BR/>Maybe I haven't watched enough modern US horror movies - or maybe I haven't noticed (which wouldn't be good) but I can't think of any more off the top of my head.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps there's also a link between the kind of people who like both but I think it's the same for fantasy and sci-fi. I remember going to a sci-fi festival in the UK when I was a teenager and it was full of heavy metal kids. Nothing wrong with that, though.<BR/><BR/>I agree that films like Martin have a cool soundtrack - and I don't think there's any specific style of music that works better than any other. The contention that metal is about creating barriers is rubbish. The idea that it's cynical is just plain bollocks. Do you think Celtic Frost were cynical? Mercyful Fate? <BR/><BR/>If it's safe <EM>commercial</EM> music used in a soundtrack then that's cynical. Metal can be commercial too so there's maybe a confusion. I don't know.<BR/><BR/>Howabout, though, for a GREAT SOUNDTRACK, the music from (REC)?pot head pixiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04043225264662244387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-48823796825607713842008-09-14T20:45:00.000-04:002008-09-14T20:45:00.000-04:00One more thought on music and horror. "United Air ...One more thought on music and horror. <BR/><BR/>"<A HREF="http://blogfiles.wfmu.org/KF/charlie/Charlie_and_his_Orchestra_-_16_-_United_Air_Man.MP3" REL="nofollow">United Air Man</A>" (.mp3) is a parody of Berlin's "Let's Go Slumming" by Charlie and His Orchestra, Goebel's personal propaganda swing band. <BR/><BR/><I>Let's go shelling<BR/>Where they're dwelling,<BR/>Let's shell churches, women, children, too,<BR/>Let us go to it, let's do it,<BR/>Let's bomb neutrals, too.<BR/>Let's go bombing, it's the coming,<BR/>Quite the thing to do.</I><BR/><BR/>In other words, it's the fucking Nazis calling out the allies on the bombing campaign that culminated in the firebombing of Dresden.<BR/><BR/>Think about it: The Nazis of all people playing on the basic human sympathies of allied airmen, with respect to one of the great horrors of WWII. The moral ambiguity that asks "Who's the real monster?" comes right out of the Universal playbook. The irony of the parody accentuates the horror rather than drawing from it. And this is no movie. This is probably the single most horrifying piece of music I've ever heard.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-58587940869610081112008-09-14T20:10:00.000-04:002008-09-14T20:10:00.000-04:00I don't believe it makes horror safer, though. I t...<I>I don't believe it makes horror safer, though. I think in a lot of cases, it makes it more cynical.</I><BR/><BR/>Well, yes. I agree that Metal makes horror cynical. But I also think that cynicism is a way of distancing yourself so things can't hurt you. Cynicism is a kind of safety. <BR/><BR/>To pick another emotion, consider love. If you are really open to loving someone, there are incredible rewards, but there are also incredible risks. But if you're cynical about love, you get the kicks and the thrills, but when she says "You're a nice guy and all, but I need to see other people," it's not such a kick in the teeth. <BR/><BR/>Being cynical about love makes you safe in transient relationships. Being cynical about horror makes you safe around horrors. They say the most popular song on US soldiers' iPods in Iraq is Iron Man.<BR/><BR/>Metal, by making horror cynical, means on the one hand that the grotesque body horror in modern films doesn't got to you in the same way that, for example, driving past the scene of a fatal car accident on a country road at 3:00 AM can get to you. (Raise your hand if you've seen this. Puts a whole 'nother perspective on things.)<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, consider a great scene like the Woodsman walking into Ingolstadt with the drowned body of his daughter in James Whale's Frankenstein. That scene is a punch in the stomach every time I see it, and I always weep uncontrollably. Both the visual and musical esthetic of Metal would never, as far as I can tell, allow for that kind of deep, personal horror. Everything is safely ensconced behind the velvet ropes of cynicism.<BR/><BR/>The cynicism of Metal is horror's safety valve. Metal fulfills the same function as the Odious Comic Relief and Scooby-Doo endings in the Old Dark House movies of the silent era.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-85074879049225320392008-09-14T19:56:00.000-04:002008-09-14T19:56:00.000-04:00Interesting discussion. I love metal and horror mo...Interesting discussion. I love metal and horror movies. (I'm a 39 year old woman) I always have though. Growing up I always liked hard rock and metal. (mostly thrashy stuff) and I always loved horror movies. I think it is somewhat a generational thing too, that is now having it's cyclical resurgence. (the 20 year cycle they say) Metal and horror are just as, or even more so, as popular now as they were when I was 20. (which is so cool, although it makes me feel old! lol)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-80355402975734289322008-09-14T19:39:00.000-04:002008-09-14T19:39:00.000-04:00Some interesting comments there Howard, as always....Some interesting comments there Howard, as always. I agree that metal CAN be pretentious at its worst--I'm talking about those times when you hear the fans and musicians discuss chord progressions like its Beethoven and then you listen to it and it sounds like someone is taking a chainsaw to a tree. But at it's best it has a great deal more musicality to it than a lot of other forms of rock music, even if its very much an anti-melodic musicality. Part of what you say about it being "antithetical to horror" is what inspired me to write this post, since it has become the standard style of horror score for much of the past few decades. This is part of the major shift in style that horror has undergone. I don't believe it makes horror safer, though. I think in a lot of cases, it makes it more cynical. It's part of the whole post-modern anti-hero thing. We're supposed to identify with the monster, and to revel in the morbidity and destruction, not be recoil from it as, say 1930s audiences might've done while watching Dracula. One of my fellow member blogs in the League of Tana Tea Drinkers, Slasher Speak, has a recent post talking about how horror has lost its innocence. I think that's very apropos.B-Solhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10717121313061173603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-78327987874567496252008-09-14T19:24:00.000-04:002008-09-14T19:24:00.000-04:00I'm one of your crossover readers, B-Sol. You migh...I'm one of your crossover readers, B-Sol. You might remember me from such threads as "What's the deal with Irving Berlin and slumming?" Sorry I'm late to the thread here.<BR/><BR/>I'm going to go ahead and say it: I think that Metal is completely antithetical to horror. Metal music is either pretentious and ponderous, or over-the-top self-parody. I can certainly see how people enjoy it, and I don't begrudge them their tastes, but it is completely antithetical to horror, and always takes me right out of the movie.<BR/><BR/>I keep telling myself I should go to a HorrorCon sometime, but I never do, because I just know there'll be a bunch of MetalHeads there being really loud and not at all horrifying. <BR/><BR/>I think finding the right soundtrack for horror is always going to be a challenge. A great model is the 1974 Texas Chainsaw Massacre. The only music <I>per se</I> in the film is whatever the characters happen to have on the radio. And yet, the sound design of that film is so rich and edgy, that the foley track essentially functions as the film's score. And that's great. <BR/><BR/>There is a sound design studio in Bangkok that's done sound for several recent Asian horror films. These guys are masters of sound design and multichannel audio. Next time you watch a Pang Bros film, pay attention to the audio mix. <I>The foley is the score.</I> Thai sound design is the best reason I know for 5.1 home theater sound.<BR/><BR/>I also love the jazz score for Romero's <I>Martin.</I> I wish that film had been a financial success, so that the canonical 80s horror score would be jazz-influenced rather than the dime-store ersatz Goblin music that infests so many slashers. (Not that the original Goblin scores for Deep Red and Suspiria weren't exactly perfect for those films, but the legions of imitators [I'm looking at you, John Carpenter] pretty much killed it for me.)<BR/><BR/><I>Shadow of a Vampire</I> went back to early 20th c. theater orchestras for inspiration, and I think it's probably the best horror film score in recent memory.<BR/><BR/>But Metal? Look, I think I can really understand why Metal fans like the music, but the thrash and volume of metal is about creating barriers, about creating a safe place to contemplate morbidity. I fully grant that some people need that distance, but it functions like a safety valve, it creates a kind of distance from the subject matter. Metal is about making horror safe. Horror shouldn't be safe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-58876073758033571902008-09-13T14:15:00.000-04:002008-09-13T14:15:00.000-04:00As a Misfits fan it makes me sick to see them labe...As a Misfits fan it makes me sick to see them labeled as "metal".<BR/>Same with 45 G.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-585356106426133632008-09-12T09:40:00.000-04:002008-09-12T09:40:00.000-04:00A lot of bands got a bum rap with the whole Satani...A lot of bands got a bum rap with the whole Satanism thing. Most either had the exact opposite message, or were just having fun with it. And by the way, I remember those flexi-vinyl EPs. I had one as a kid, it was attached to a magazine as well. Some kind of weird sci-fi/horror thing. Scared the crap out of me as a kid.B-Solhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10717121313061173603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-82372356419352019972008-09-12T08:53:00.000-04:002008-09-12T08:53:00.000-04:00I'll try not to be pedantic as before as I think t...I'll try not to be pedantic as before as I think this topic is really quite interesting.<BR/><BR/>I remember when I first saw Phenomena on video and it was really weird to hear bands like Iron Maiden and Motorhead in the context of a soundtrack for Dario Argento. Maybe this is because we were all used to Goblim and Simonetti stuff, but it really kind of jarred a bit for me.<BR/><BR/>I also remember a band from when I was a teenager in the 80s, called Sabbat, who were a new thrash band in the UK. They went so far as to record a flexi-vinyl EP that was stuck to the cover of the fantasy RPG games magazine, White Dwarf. Their EP was wall about the game Warhammer. Those guys were into a kind of English spiritualism/occult thing called Wyrdism as well. I think it fits in with what you're saying as lots of people, and the press, thought they were satanists.pot head pixiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04043225264662244387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-19249528483017014012008-09-11T17:10:00.000-04:002008-09-11T17:10:00.000-04:00Ray, I humbly bow to your metal expertise. I think...Ray, I humbly bow to your metal expertise. I think you've added a great deal to my original post, thanks. Speaking of Metallica's Call of Ktulu, that's definitely one of the specific songs I was thinking of. This seems to be a very fertile topic--I'd certainly welcome it if you wanted to expand on it and maybe do another guest post at some point!B-Solhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10717121313061173603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-24661691893109220722008-09-11T16:16:00.000-04:002008-09-11T16:16:00.000-04:00RayRay – Another fantastic post, B-Sol. You hit a...RayRay – Another fantastic post, B-Sol. You hit a number of good points about teenage angst, rebellion, etc., as being part of the genesis of the heavy metal/horror connection. I think, though, that as the 60’s became the 70’s, and the promise of the youth movements falling short, a certain level of anxiety began to permeate music. Blues, never far from center stage, made a huge comeback, most importantly in the form of bands like Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath [yes, Sabbath was originally a blues band]. Also, these bands began to delve beyond the subjects of peace and love. While other bands, like Pink Floyd, began to go into the dreamy haze of LSD, Zeppelin and Sabbath [the godfather and grandfather, respectively, of heavy metal], began to be inspired by fantasy literature. And fantasy is the gateway drug into horror, as both have monsters and doom in abundance, along with outlets for teenage angst and escapism.<BR/><BR/>Also, Sabbath, and the first kings of metal, Iron Maiden, took inspiration from apocalyptic religion in combination with near certain nuclear annihilation. For Sabbath’s part, songs like War Pigs, Electric Funeral, Children of the Grave, and Into the Void bear out this dynamic, where man’s rash actions literally invite the devil into the world. And, the devil, the biggest villain of all [and th emost misunderstood character in literature], also became a staple of heavy metal, either as one to be feared or worshipped [at first the former, but increasingly the latter]. <BR/><BR/>Metal, in the 1970’s and early 80’s, took on the heavy subjects – war, [nuclear and conventional], fear, violence, drug abuse and addiction, and injustice. Again, with liberal doses of fantasy, these topics were written about in detail. And since this was a new, darker form of rock ‘n roll, we were not spared the gory details. <BR/><BR/>I think Iron Maiden’s mascot, Eddie, a skeleton-like monster, was the first real commercial success in melding horror and metal into a single package, though Eddie really was just an icon, and Iron Maiden continued to write songs about Satan, war, and self made gods. <BR/><BR/>I also think that the artists who wrote these darker songs read darker literature and had darker thoughts, and this resulted in songs in the 80’s written about witch burnings, pure evil, and the monsters from HP Lovecraft [See: Metallica’s Call of Cthulu and The Thing Which Should Not Be]. While the earlier bands, like Sabbath, were inspired less by the horror genre, I think that by the 80’s, and your noted shift in horror movies styles in the 70’s, now bands were taking a good deal of inspiration from horror movies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-32652894221710539682008-09-11T13:50:00.000-04:002008-09-11T13:50:00.000-04:00You're pedantic.You're pedantic.B-Solhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10717121313061173603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-26773784361617408132008-09-11T12:15:00.000-04:002008-09-11T12:15:00.000-04:00Call me pedantic but...I think there's a confusion...Call me pedantic but...<BR/><BR/>I think there's a confusion in the article between metal and punk. The Return of the Living Dead soundtrack is basically punk (The Damned, 45 Grave) and psychobilly (The Cramps). The Misfits, whose logo you use, are horror punk as well. Maybe it seems like quibbling but there is a big difference I think between punk and metal music. Granted, both are loud and aggressive but the ethos behind the two is completely different.pot head pixiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04043225264662244387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-54738090265495032572008-09-10T20:59:00.000-04:002008-09-10T20:59:00.000-04:00As a horror fan, I enjoyed your article on the tie...As a horror fan, I enjoyed your article on the ties to horror and metal. I'm 49 years old and I listen to Godsmack, Staind, Korn, Manson, Saliva, Chilli Peppers... just to name a few. I think I like to darker side of the music, not so much the words. I listen to a wide varitey of music, but the harder the better for me. Don't have an answer as to why, but it is an interesting discussion.frgodbeyjrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00289694037831907470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-57342495891565702722008-09-10T16:21:00.000-04:002008-09-10T16:21:00.000-04:00You're absolutely correct. I think the wording of ...You're absolutely correct. I think the wording of my article makes it seem like I'm saying the two are linked exclusively of anything else. There certainly is a strong fantasy link as well, starting with Led Zeppelin. There are certainly other genres of film that metal is associated with, and other genres of music that horror is associated with. What I was saying is that there is a link between horror and metal, and I was exploring what that link was all about. It wasn't meant to imply that ALL metal is connected to horror, only that there is a strong association with a lot of it.B-Solhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10717121313061173603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-88157694604486933242008-09-10T16:00:00.000-04:002008-09-10T16:00:00.000-04:00I don't agree with this article.Now, let me start ...I don't agree with this article.<BR/><BR/>Now, let me start by saying, I can certainly understand where you can draw parallels, and there's no doubting that bands such as Cannibal Corpse or the like are very much linked thematically with horror films. But I think there's a lot that you're not taking into account.<BR/><BR/>You say that both horror and metal deal with shocking and sometimes violent imagery, but this is not true of a lot of bands who use a lot of fantasy imagery, in music and lyrics as much as album covers of videos. Take Manowar for example, who evoke a very Conan-esque image.<BR/><BR/>Take the sheer amount of metal bands who've based their names on Tolkien, or who sing about fantasy related things. Blind Guardian did an entire album based upon the Silmarillion. I would say that a shared interest in Fantasy is about as pervailant in Metal as is the interest in Horror.<BR/><BR/>Likewise one could look to other bands who've been influenced by Science Fiction themes, such as Fear Factory or Biomechanical, and have imagery to suit.<BR/><BR/>The flip side to that is also true, and more films than just horrors have had Metal soundtracks. Many action films for example have had Metal and Rock bands substitute traditional film scores. There's plenty of comparison to be made there as well, and you can easily draw conclusions that fans of a high adrenaline kind of film find the same appeal in a fast, powerful and high adrenaline kind of music.<BR/><BR/>I do think you're looking at things like this in too narrow a view, and not taking in the many other genres that Metal fans also find themselves as fans of. I definitely know many Sci-Fi fans who listen to a lot of metal, no doubt about it.Karl Hungushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11402005407998764370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8470604276410220159.post-72239160342194681702008-09-10T11:13:00.000-04:002008-09-10T11:13:00.000-04:00Great article, especially since I love my metal. B...Great article, especially since I love my metal. But, I for one would take Zombie's mediocre music over his movies any day.gordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11955994070918697381noreply@blogger.com